PAS Dewan Ulama chief Datuk Harun Taib
Source: The Choice
It now looks like PAS is tying itself into knots trying to project a united face in the controversy over the word “Allah”.
In one corner, we have PAS Dewan Ulama chief Datuk Harun Taib who demands that the word “Allah” is exclusively for Muslims; while in the opposite corner, stands party deputy president Mohamad Sabu, who reportedly said that non-Muslims can use the word “Allah” to refer to their God.
The Islamist party is clearly facing a crisis of its own, with several senior members reportedly upset that the party is not strongly addressing issues involving Islam.
PAS’ rank-and-file claim that the party leadership is more interested in pacifying its secular partners in Pakatan Rakyat, DAP and PKR, rather than standing up for its core Islamic values.
The latest aggravation is the statements from some PAS leaders in favour of non-Muslims using the word “Allah”.
Mat Sabu recently said: “The PAS president (Datuk Seri Abdul Hadi Awang) had issued a statement in 2010 to not forbid any religious adherent, who are not Muslims, to use the word ‘Allah’. PAS maintains that stand.”
In January 2010, Hadi had said: “In conclusion, we cannot forbid them from using the word ‘Allah’ among themselves, in their worship and practice, even though the meaning deviates from the original according to our language.”
But these comments have been dismissed by conservatives in PAS, including Harun, who criticised “certain leaders who think they were above ulama leaders in the party”.
He reiterated that followers of other religions, like Christianity, did not have any right to use the word “Allah” on any occasion, including using it in the Bahasa Malaysia version of the Bible.
“In Christianity, they refer to God as Jesus and not Allah. As far as I am concerned, the word ‘Allah’ is only for Muslims because in Christianity, they have the Father, Son and Holy Spirit,” he stressed.
These contradictory comments have revealed a growing undercurrent of hostility between the ulama and non-ulama sections of the Islamist party.
Former Penang Pas Youth chief Mohd Hafiz Mohd Nordin said PAS’ Syura Council must take a firm stand on the matter, instead of allowing individual party leaders to issue their own statements.
He said that the council had not issued any official statement or decision since 2010, yet this was needed now more than ever as the latest controversy involved the question of faith and religion.
“On behalf of the party grassroots in Penang and Malaysia, we are waiting for a firm decision by the Syura Council, which has the most credibility to determine such a crucial matter.
“The longer it takes for the council to decide, the more confused members will become, especially when non-ulama leaders, like Mat Sabu, make a statement,” he said.
Perhaps the real debate shouldn’t be between PAS and DAP in this latest public spat to hit Pakatan; it should really be taking place within PAS itself.
At stake is whether or not the Islamist party is ready to live with the reality of our multicultural society and coexist with other religions and communities, or whether PAS is only interested in taking a monochrome, hardline approach that pushes an Islamist agenda and alienates other sections of the population.
This conflict within PAS could well decide the future of Malaysia itself.
Macam biskut – sekejap ada sekejap hilang. Sekejap boleh guna kalimah “Allah” sekejap tak boleh, sekejap boleh murtad, sekejap kena saman.
The cracks are widening within PAS, DAP and PKR. Voters must take note of the conflicting and contradictory statements spouting from all the pakatan leaders. Obviously they lack the basic requirement of a leader – integrity.
What is umnos stand?
My Senior Counsel always tell me this:
The best defense is to tell the truth and from your heart. If you keep spinning and telling half truths, later you will forget what you lied. You may forget but your listeners will not.
This is exactly what is happening to Hadi Awang. He spin so much that he forgot what he he spun. Same thing like Tokong. He agree so much with Pas that he forgot what he agree to disagree. That’s why the issue of Allah came out.
Now it is not only Tokong has no respect for Sultan of Selangor (I don’t blame him as he is not a Muslim and he is totally ignorant of Muslim rules), even the President Hadi Awang of PAS which is the Islamic Party of Malaysia has no respect for Selangor Sultan who is the Head of Islamic Affairs in Selangor in going against his royal ruling on this Allah issue.
Anyone can have ideals and ambition to achieve something. But it is the fundamental and basic principles of a person / party that is the root of one’s upbringing. Now that fundamental had been breached, what ideals can we hope for in this Party? It has nothing to do with success or failure, nothing to do with supporters or even your wife/ children. It has something that tell about the character of yourself. To me, this guy who has been a human being for 60+ years is a failure in life.
Agreed.
Hope the man in the street – the voters – understand that.
These Pas crooks are just gunning for votes from those sick “christian groups” who purposely challenged the authority on the usage of the word “Allah”.
For tens of years since merdeka, every citizen of this country knew that the word “Allah” is used to refer to the god of the muslim.
The christians refer their god as Jesus or Lord, the buddhists refer theirs as Lord Buddha, Taoists refer their deities according to the various deity names and so were the hindus. None of them would want to refer their god as “Allah” as they very well knew that it is used by the muslims.
Everybody is respectful of each others religion. Peace and harmony is the order of the day then.
Only recently, because of the dirty politicians playing with religions to get votes and supporters from the christian groups, that started the fireball rolling where they started to challenge the authority on the usage of the word “Allah” for Jesus.
Why??? Good people please wake up.
Dirty christian politicians have infiltrated certain churches to create discord against the government and the people in the name of democracy and this is supported by all those dirty non- christian politicians out for only POWER. As long as they can get cheap votes, they will sell their mother.
To all those dirty and cheap politicians, and especially the group fighting to use the word “Allah”, why not you refer your christian god as ” Buddha” ???. If you can use “Allah” to refer to your christian god, then I can also use “Buddha” to refer to your christian god. Why not? If you want to confuse people, then I also want to do the same on you. Fair game.
Please don’t play dirty politics by meddling with religions.
Many of the Evangelical churches in the US are run by glory seeking personalities who talk and preach in the manner of demagogues, fiery Sukarno or Anwar or Lim Kit Siang style, well attended by entertainment-seeking (only some are salvation-seeking) citizenry, they get donations from so-called flocks and congregations, live on them, and use them for their own personal comfort and living in luxury.
Periodically there were reports of such congregation leaders being exposed. Complaints from the genuine salvation-seeking members of the flock led to Police investigations. And a few arrests.
There were also the so-called Evangelical churches living in secluded places with their own peculiar rules, like the Armish who keep their beards like Talibans, like the “religious sect” that allows polygamy even more than four wives, and one that ended in mass murder – remember the news of that in the US about a decade ago?
So, here in Malaysia, some blokes try setting up the “private churches” not under the control or the purview of the Catholic Archbishop of Malaysia, or under the control of anybody else but themselves alone, operating from rented shop or residential houses, including that gay fellow who sought publicity to marry his New York boyfriend – whatever happens to the bloke now.
And there must be blokes who get attracted to the fact that the Mormon Church got millions of US dollars donations from film stars such Tom Cruise and John Travolta who joined them. It’s a bloody good business proposition. And there was talk of such big donors growing disenchanted with that Church in the US, too.
These are the blokes who Equalizer says allows “Dirty christian politicians have infiltrated certain churches to create discord against the government and the people in the name of democracy and this is supported by all those dirty non- christian politicians out for only POWER. As long as they can get cheap votes, they will sell their mother … the group fighting to use the word “Allah” … to refer to your christian god.”
Nothing wrong with the genuine salvation-offering churches, but plenty wrong with the others. And apparently nobody is taking action on them. So, how?
Correction:
These are the blokes who Equalizer says allows “Dirty christian politicians have infiltrated certain churches ..
should be
These are the blokes who allow what Equalizer says “Dirty christian politicians have infiltrated certain churches ..
“So, here in Malaysia, some blokes try setting up the “private churches” not under the control or the purview of the Catholic Archbishop of Malaysia, or under the control of anybody else but themselves alone,………..”
Do not comment on what you do not really know about.Those setting up “private churches”
as you put it are the protestants.They do not come under purview of the Catholic Archibishop. Ask the ROS to to deny them registration.
Malaysia and the USA have different sets of laws for your information.Do not spread misinformation here.
What are you trying to say, Mista?
You yourself said, “Those setting up “private churches” as you put it are the protestants.They do not come under purview of the Catholic Archibishop.”
Are those not what Anonymous said above?
How to believe what you say when you can’t even tell the difference between the nic Anonymas and Anonymous in your earlier comment?
And what “Ask the ROS to to deny them registration” are you talk?
Are you not the one who tries to “spread misinformation here.” Even “Anonymas and Anonymous” also you misinform … Accchhhaaa hehhhhh mahhhhhe.
As a Catholic, I found it disconcerting that the usage of a word is causing so much hoo-haa in the country. My take is that someone has to relent or this matter will never ever end. I don’t believe it will be that difficult for Christians to get used to using Tuhan instead of Allah, given time. Afterall, in the last liturgical calendar, Catholics worldwide had started using the New Roman Missal, a major liturgical literature change to bring the English translation as close as possible to the Latin texts.
That said, I sincerely believe that the church has to shoulder some blame over the fiasco. I’ve stopped going for Masses in several churches, OLOG Puchong, CDM Shah Alam, SFX PJ amongst others simply because the parish priests believe that PR are the saviors of the nation & of Catholics if their homilies are anything to go by. By politicizing the pulpit, they’ve created a strong impression that PR is given a “heavenly mandate” & Catholics are duty bound to elect them into office at the GE.
As for Bishop Paul Tan, personally as a baptised Catholic, I do not acknowledge nor respect his authority as the current titular head of the Catholic church in the country. If he’s so principled he should resign his religious office & contest the GE.
Agree and support what you said.
BN hari ni bagi cyber trooper bonus ke? Who knows lepas Ah Jib Gor confirmed he’s alive & gonna be kicking PR backsides ada allocate bonus kot…
who knows, maybe the cyber trooper is actually someone from PR paid to act as a BN trooper to give us the impression that BN is paying people to help them. be very careful there.
I agree.
Gosh, I like this business of agreeing.
Wish I get paid!
Can I name my Dog Jesus?
Bet you got your sense of humor from your pop & mom eh? So how much are you claiming from Komtar for your one liner anyways? Ada extra ka for inciting others?
Should know your boundaries man.. freedom of speech and comments doesn’t mean you can type whatever you want. Malaysians have been living in harmony and in tolerance, until these past few years. Stop your senseless comments Orang Melayu. Thank you.
As an orang melayu and muslim – I agree with ED but do you know of an orang melayu that has a dog as a pet?
Definitely an intigator here this so called orang melayu!
An instigator who masquerades as Orang Melayu. Plenty in blogosphere.
Bloody hell, isn’t there such a word as blogosphere? The spelling prompter keeps coming each time I type that.
The dictionary should have that word. Cyber space are two words whereas that one is one, never mind it’s length!
Orang Melayu,
One of the uniqueness of Muslim is that they will never belittled Jesus or Moses because all of them are the prophet of Islam. This is unlike Judaism where they will belittled Jesus A.S and Muhammad S.A.W. and the Christian will belittled Muhammad S.A.W.
So orang Melayu, be careful of what you said.
Orang Melayu,
Can I name your wife DOG?
Bishop Paul Tan,
Please show respect to Jesus, for thou has sinned and sinned badly.
Read what Tee S Cee had written above, resign and become a politician. Don’t dirty the good name of the church, because of what you have done, people has started to condemn the church you represented.
Tee S Cee,
You are like me in many ways…I too have stopped going to CDM as well about 3 years back after Father Paulino and his fiery PR speeches are anything to go by and what is with bringing PR politicians in the Mass to give ceramahs for??…..Sad to say from 1500 parishioners there is only around 500 now from what I heard….Didn’t know OLOG was also the same…I know that SFX was like tat too after all the priests there have a reputation for this kinda things for as far as I can remember even way back in the 80s when I was just a small kid……SIC had happened something similar a few months back when the speaker mentioned during the “Pray for us” part to pray for Cynthia Gabriel (Suaram) for us to pray for her and her safety for the supposed Scorpene trials in France??….Ohhhh I made my protests well known indeed!!! I informed Father about it and made a big hoo-ha….needless to say got an apology (not that I asked for one) and a promise that such things political in nature will be mentioned again….and it has never been repeated again…..nice to know that….
My point has always been the same the church is only for spiritual pursuits and not earthly pursuits…if you are interested in earthly pursuits esp on politics…PLEASE RESIGN and excommunicate yourself from the church and do whatever political thing you wanna do OUTSIDE of the church…
Good one, TRR.
TRR,
I got my first dose of political sermons before National Day 09 after coming back from a few years of overseas job assignment. Went to CDM for the first time & was impressed with the facilities & the warm welcome I got from the ushers. But the sermon, it was full of vitriol & Fr Paulino even said at the start he’s not gonna talk about the readings that day. I walked out midway through the homily.
OLOG actually has parishioners manning stalls to sell amongst other The Rocket. What made me sadder still at the whole thing was the fact they only bothered to sell the Herald after mass with the ushers standing like beggars expecting parishioners to buy from them. But a proper table was set up to sell opposition paraphernalia?
Lately in KL, I’ve seen such “political spirituality” spreading with a few churches distributing Selangor Times in their premises with a static stand placed at the entrance. I now normally attend mass at St John’s or Holy Rosary Church where the parish priests steer away from political sensitivities which I believe is the right way to go.
The latin word for God is DEO. Why use Allah which, through out my life I know that it is how Muslims call the Almighty. Yes those priests in the Catholic churches you mentioned are abusing the pulpit, we should boycott them and I fully agree with you that Bishop Paul Tan should resign or be sacked so he can be an opposition politician so that God’s holy name is not tainted.
Agree with you in spirit.Has not the Church been involved in the politics of countries right from the beginning of its inception?The parish priests are not politicizing the pulpit , but giving their opinion on the state of affairs in this country where GOD has become a commodity with certain religious leaders telling us who can and cannot use the term ALLAH to refer to God.
They have become a confused lot. Poor fellows. Actually, serve them right, so gila for kuasa, dah tak kira apa.
The Hadi bloke (not really a derogatory word as the Oxford Dictionary says it includes a ship captain, and this is a sinking ship but still has a captain!) has been a no-principle chap, follows the wind. Remember, when the Anwar Aj Juburi-influenced Khalid Samad Erdogan group succeeded in throwing out Negara Islam and Hudud to the chagrin of the Ulama group at the 2011 PAS Muktamar, Hadi said, “Saya bebas.” But when the Ulama Group got Hudud back as PAS flag bearer and they agreed that Hadi was PAS’ choice as PM at the 2012 Muktamar, Hadi’s backside became moist and he jumped up, elated with excitement.
I tell you, jahanam negara with this kind of blokes around. And they aspire to be in Putrajaya. God forbid.
Yes, yes, yes. Don’t let them be anywhere near Putrajaya.
Not even in Puchong.
Maybe Kepong.
Buang semua kat Pulau Jerejak lah bro… They can set up their own mosques, churches, temple, gurdwara etc there next to each other. Then we see if they are what they say they are in terms of religious acceptance & respect…
kau dah silap Tee S Cee. buang mereka kat Tanjung Rambutan. mereka tu semua golongan gila bungkus.
Buang negeri je lah PPP, macam Chin Peng yang dia orang semua agung agungkan. Darah daging saya mati kat Parit Buntar pads tahun 80 berjuang bawah panji 8 Renjer. Mat Sabu, LGE, Anwar & suku sakat diaorang yang cinta & agungkan CP boleh blah!!!
Actually, buang kat zoo pun boleh gak. Dapat juga hiburkan kita semua dengan kerenah monyet yang dah sebati dengan diri mereka…
“I tell you, jahanam negara with this kind of blokes around. And they aspire to be in Putrajaya. God forbid.”
Which God are you referring to?
Why, only you owning God?
Are you sure you have a God? Or do you have many gods, or believe your soul will transform into something else after death.
Nothing wrong whichever, except the way you ask.
LGE is a smart man. He is trying to reinforce the religious sentiments with the voters. He calculated that majority of the Chinese voters would back him further if he work on this “Allah” issue. He knows that Malay voters would not like him, but who cares. DAP do not need these Malay voters anyway.
On the other hand, Hadi Awang also did the same. PAS do not need Chinese voters and they calculated Chinese voters would not support them anyway, so who cares about them.
Great political moves on perceptions…EXCEPT voters these days are not that stupid. When we elect our leaders to lay the fundamentals for our children, we look at the character of the person and the way the party is run.
PAS and DAP has too much baggage and lost its credibility recently. As for PKR, it already lost them long ago. Why gamble on a irregular shaped when you have already have a rectangular table to eat from?
Agree with you.
I’m in the mood of agreeing to day.
But don’t let the PR fellows come with anything for me to sign!
they have seem to have no modal to be used for campaign
now sudah siang siang created this ruckus
together with the perhimpunan
this is understandable as they have no positive track record, or served rakyat proper even after 4 years down the road.
So here they are, raising and pancing for some ruckus hoping to whip up sentiments to forgo rationality and fish for votes
either that or hate campaign
hmmm
There is no issue here. God and or Allah does not belong to any race or religion. If some religion want to call their Prophet Jesus – does not bother me. If people insult my God, Jesus, Mary or my religion. It is their problem not mine. They are the one who has to answer for the insult when their time comes.
and the biggest casualty of this whole Allah word controversy is PAS. the more they try to spin themselves out of trouble, the more trouble comes their way. today we have so and so from PAS say this and that. tomorrow we have another so and so from PAS say this and that. and the charade continues unabated. what PAS does not know, does not understand is that they are fast losing ground, losing support among their grassroots if they continue with this charade. but for PAS the flip flopping continues.
Not flip flopping, sir. It’s in-fighting.
The Anwar-backed Erdogan group and the old generation Ulama group.
What I like most of all is their 2012 Muktamar wants Hadi as PM, not Anwar.
And we know Hadi will never be PM. DAP will never allow that. They know Hadi is a man of convenience. Now it’s convenient for Hadi to say can use Kalimah Allah. To morrow he’ll support the Ulama group wanting Hudud be applied on non-Muslims as well. The Chinese will go bonkers over that.
the Chinese have already gone bonkers. they have thrown in their lot with PR. bonkers a long time ago.
No, don’t think so. Only your thought. Many Chinese get fedap PAS summons on Chinese hair salons and khalwat couples. PAS said suspend summons but Chinese believe after elections they do again. They also don’t believe Hudud for Malays only. THey say PAS will use it for non-Malays also.
you’re half right. the Chinese are fed up with PAS, but they are not going to vote for PAS. they will vote for DAP because the DAP will tell them that “we will handle PAS. don’t worry. no Hudud as long as there’s DAP. this is all BN propaganda”.
The Chinese will vote DAP and the Malays will vote PAS. Both these parties will use the word “Allah” to make sure they brainwash their supporters.
I still don’t agree. Chinese who fedap with DAP will vote MCA and Gerakan, Malays who see enough of Pakatan messy, and PAS 2011 no-Hudud 2012 yes-Hudud will vote UMNO, Malays last time fedap with Tun Abdullah Badawi will come back to vote UMNO.
Good chance BN will get back 2/3 majority. Ahmad Maslan UMNO Info Chief said UMNO need only 20 seats more to get 2/3 majority. 7 PKR seats got 2008 – 6 of PKR men already katak lompat, and one PKR Hulu Selangor seat BN already won in PRK Hulu Selangor years ago.
That is what you think. Haven’t come across any Chinese that say they fed up with PAS. But have heard from many Chinese they are sick of Umno. PAS never wave any keris towards the Chinese. Umno people wave and threaten to soak the keris with blood.
Only stupid Chinese will vote for Umno.
It is the PAS liars who try to convince the stupid Chinese to vote for them. But deep in PAS’s heart, they DO NOT CARE for the Chinese. Saloon rulings and khalwat cases are examples.
DAP is also the same. They try to win the Malays just to show only. But do DAP care? Nope. DAP think Malays are not important voters. Even the Malay CEC member voted in by manipulation is a Malay in name only. The blood is not.
Those who “Haven’t come across any Chinese that say they fed up with PAS” must be mixing with the wrong crowd. Saying “have heard from many Chinese they are sick of Umno” means this bloke is obviously DAP.
Saying “… wave any keris towards the Chinese. Umno people wave and threaten to soak the keris with blood” must be the sicko DAP thug and gangster kind. Those who understood that whatever show of keris during UMNO Youth party elections was only meant to catch votes, but exploited it to instigate the Chinese like those buggers who caused the 13 May 1969 race riots.
This fellow using the name Zendra is nasty. He acknowledges that there are many Chinese who vote BN by saying “Only stupid Chinese will vote for Umno.” But his instigation of Chinese and instilling hatred, talking hate politics, is very DAP and makes him a dangerous fellow. Watch him and don’t allow him to ride rough shots in here.
I don’t think any UMNO Youth – or any UMNO wing for that matter – in a party election would want to use such racist words as “soak the keris with blood.”
The bloke will not win as UMNO has been an accomodating party since the time they agreed to citizenship for the Chinese about 60 years ago and UMNO members have stuck to working with the Chinese even until today.
I haven’t read about any authoritative report about any aspirant to an UMNO top position saying those words. Therefore it’s likely that those words have been coined by the bloke using the name Zendra.
Yes, watch him. And whack him every time he tries to instigate racial animosity and put out hate comments in here.
Hadi, moga kuburan mu kelak disirami kencing dan bauan busuk.
A, do u agree with me or not ?
I’m not A, of course, but as for the grave of Hadi, well, it depends on how he died.
If he has repented, then let his grave be respected, just like any other grave.
If he has not repented, then let us respect it anyway, because it is for Allah SWT to judge, not us. Allah SWT has promised torment in the grave those who had done Him wrong, so let us take comfort in the knowledge that he would have a bad time there.
Malays will sure vote you SOG, not PAS. And many Malays like SOG, you know. Very angry with PAS, still will not kencing their kubur, but I don’t know how many PAS people like that.
That Mazlan Aliman PAS Central Cttee member want to kencing fellow FELDA settlers over their durian runtuh FGV listing, tried injuction whatever they call to stop the public listing. Now FELDA suing him, ANAK, the FELDA settlers organization he lead. I won’t say if I kencing his kubur but I sure want FELDA to sue them to the highest court.
And maybe Ulama faction sue Erdogan faction in PAS or Hadi on Allah issue whatever.
Anon, thank you for the kind words.
Actually, now that you’ve mentioned Mazlan Aliman, I find it quite saddening to see that our opposition is filled with liars.
For those who are unaware of the pile of shit PR is trying to kick up using Felda, view this video to get a taste of what they’re doing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFtHeEIB6n4
With that kind of behaviour, you still want us to believe that PR is the saviour of Malaysia?
No thanks, PR. You can keep your stupidity to yourself.
Agreed
We have now see the dangerous trend of political parties using religion for their gains…
PAS using Islam since their inception…and now DAP using Christianity to divide Muslims and Christians to garner support esp from those in Sabah & Sarawak which are considered part of BN FD.
This issue is being played up by opposition primarily to get votes from east Malaysian.
The churches over there has long been using the bibles from Indonesia for the past 50 over years without any problems, and the central government has never stop these churches from using indo-bibles before.
Only recently this issues was blow up by opposition and has galvanized the Muslim faith into a frenzy. Even the Muslim faiths are now also polarized into two camps.
That is why I always said that the opposition are enticing racial hate and anger. Their doctrine of winning by all and any means a tearing this peaceful country apart, not only between different religions but also among the Muslim faith.
I personally believe in the law of the land. So if the law says cant be use then don’t use the word “Allah” and substitute with “Tuhan”.
What is the need of stubbornness and combativeness?
Did not god told us mortals to be humble and compassionate?
Did not god told us to live harmoniously with other faiths?
So if the law of the land say don’t use the word, then don’t use it!
With my limited knowledge of the constitution of Malaysia, I believe that the only person can have a say in this “Allah” issue should be the head of the country the king as he is also the head of the Muslim faith. No other person can determine the word usage, not even a ulama.
Obviously, the king will seek consultation from various religious leaders but the final ruling shall be his.
shame on them
shame on them
all for the greed of power
its all about them
not about rakyat
save Malaysia
Bro, sinar harian reports Nik Aziz want to convert christians to islam @ http://www.sinarharian.com.my/nasional/nik-aziz-buka-ruang-untuk-berdakwah-1.119362
malayaraya.wordpress.com
Whatever the issues they bring the goal is to create chaos. They’re trying.
The best thing is to seize power force because they can draft new constitution without special Malays right and Malays Sultan. Off course Anuwar will be our first President.
Christians who support them are playing fire and that what PR wants. Again create chaos. They want to start it now or it will be to late for them.
will past be their kuda kepang?
No, if they try to seize power by force – even by the so-called Arab Spring method, with the intention of drafting a new constitution without special Malay rights and Malay Sultans, they will be whacked by the Malays. Remember the race riots of 13 May 1969? Even when they didn’t talk directly about doing away with Malay rights and Malay Sultans, only telling the Malays to “balek kampong” and in rude and vulgar ways, the Malays retaliated physically.
Remember also that in Fiji, where the colonial British allowed the pendatang to become the majority, they won the general elections, they could not get power – the Army grabbed power and ruled by military decrees.
Of course we should not talk about 13 May except only to remind the Opposition to avoid that road. And to remind Anwar and his followers never to think of being “our first President.”
If PR try to seize power by force, I will be among those who will fight them, Insya Allah.
DAP is full of crooked minds….trying all kinds of strategy to split the malay votes and also to split the sultans from the malays.
Really the highest level of racism one can find anywhere.
There’s warnings of a massive monsoon coming the east coasts and I wonder why UMNO isnt blamed for this too.
DAP is using UMNO to rally the chinese to stand on their side of the fence but does DAP really thinks all chinese are bangkai bodohs?
Only the chinese can answer if theyre bangkai and baruah bodohs to agree to DAP’s strategy.
If DAP wins using the ugly malay and UMNO bashing – the chinese will never EVER be trusted by the malay controlled Malaysia.
In the long run – its the chinese whom will be the biggest losers…as its the malays from UMNO and PAS who actually controls Malaysia.
Who wants a chinese controlled Malaysia?
Do you realise that it is DAP and PAS is making all the noise? One is playing fire with Malays and the other is stroking anger with Chinese. But PKR is very quiet?
In the end, PKR will come out and say…we are the middle ground people. We are the best. We are here to help.
And they all think we are sooo stupid.
What always interests me is that the delegates to the PAS Muktamar 2012 say they want Hadi, not Anwar, as PM. All Anwar could say is “boleh bincang”. What is there to discuss?
And he had to have a discussion on the PAS Ulama group stand that the term Allah is only for Muslims. Managed to get Hadi to say something not very clear and conclusive on it. I haven’t read what Harun Taib and the Ulama group say yet.
I put aside what Nik Aziz said on that and on many things. He’s senile, half mad, kafir mengkafir nonsense fellow.
Too busy making love instead of war, more like it.
I wish we would go back to the days when each ethnic group went about practising their own religion without trying to encroach on others’ religions. I don’t see why this issue should be brought up at all by Christians (not the grassroots but Chief Instigator Joseph “Tokong” Lim Guan Eng and his ilk). If Christians so very much want to use the word Allah in their Bible, the Pope would have made a ruling to that effect but he has not.
The Pope does not have control over those non-Catholics. He has control only over the Catholics. And the same goes for the Catholic Archbishop, the head of Catholics in this country. Correct me if I’m wrong, anyone.
And the Evangelical churches have nobody to supervise, advise or control them. They are a free-for-all kind of set up. Anything goes. Even a gay priest or pastor. That’s why the problems. Again, correct me if I’m wrong here, too, anyone.
Was the Christian BM Bible and Kalimah Allah issue raised by the Catholic Church? If so, was there complicity in the Pope’s silence on the matter which has reached the Appeal Court now?
Anyone can also answer the questions I asked. Thank you.
The Archbishop of KL, Rt Rev Murphy Pakiam took the matter to court as his office is listed as the publisher of The Herald. KDN had refused to renew the printing permit for The Herald due to the usage of the word in their BM pages. As it is, the Archbishop had conducted himself with utmost dignity (I’m sure the government would agree with these sentiments) throughout the saga.
However, as the matter gathered media attention, a number of Christian (and some Catholic) figures came out making statements over the issue. Note that until today, the Archbishop of Kuching along with the Bishops of Sibu & Miri refused to comment on the matter despite the fact that Sarawakians are badly affected if the ruling comes into force.
I may be made out to be biased but to an extent, I agree with Anon’s comments that the biggest noise is made by the evangelical churches. That said, a few “politically enlightened” clergy in the Catholic church unashamedly equate this issue with political & racial polarization thus, without any subtlety whatsoever egging the congregation to vote out the “oppresive regime” in Putrajaya.
That’s my take on the matter anyway. Do correct any wrong in my perceptions, if any. Thanks
Thanks for the clarification on a number of issues, TSC. One thing I like this blog is that we can always express our views in a civil manner.
I welcome others to weigh in with their views on this subject. We may not agree with one another but we can at least try to understand one another. With views stated in the normal and non-offensive manner.
They can use Allah in their Bible if they agreed on something. Let The father name Allah, Holly Ghost name Allah and Jesus name Allah. See how they can understand the Bible after that.
If they agreed to put that in order not to confuse Malays it’s ok then. Because in Malaysia environment Allah is the only god. One God.
So please put it in Malays perspective.
Actually, I would like to ask the visitors of STL on this Allah issue.
Obviously, there are those who think that the Christians should be allowed to use the word Allah in the bible.
The question is why?
Yes, we are talking about God. But the God that Muslims believe in and worship has a nature that is completely different from the nature of the God that Christians believe in.
This is clearly stated in the al-Qur’an Chapter 112 (Surah “Al-Ikhlas”/”Sincerity”), which has four verses:
1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4. And there is none like unto Him.
On the other hand, Christianity believes in the Trinity God. That there is the “Father” and the “Son” is proof enough that the nature of God in Christianity is entirely different from Islam’s. In Islam, God has no father, and has no offspring.
So clearly, if you’re praying to the Lord, you’re not referring to Allah SWT. So why use a term that might cause confusion, especially among those who are just coming to grips with their respective religions?
I mean, if a guy from Scotland wants to open a service garage using his family name “McDonald’s Service Garage”, there is a good possibility that the McDonald’s burger company’s legal action against them would fall through. But if the same Scottish guy were to open “McDonald’s Burgers”, then I do not think any court in the world would allow the name to stand. The brand name is too similar to a well-known corporation’s, as is the products being offered.
So if we are willing to seek clarity on worldly names and issues, why create confusion over something that has everlasting impact?
politically motivated. to fish for votes. to appeal to a fringe liberal minority. but there is another reason why the issue is being brought out now. the opposition has no more issues to exploit. and also to divert people’s attention from their party election fiasco. so instead you should ask “why now ?”.
yes, they have no positive points to shout even after more than 4 years of ruling a few states. Thats why the tong banging and loudspeaker over no issues
Btw can anybody list down 5 positive things the oppo has done for us (not for their family and kawan kawan). Done, not lips service talk. Just curious …
a)
b)
c)
d)
e)
Hey, they’ve done so much! They have errrrr…. hmmmm…. ahhhhh…. Actually you see, their hands are tied as the federal government is still in BN’s hands. You need to hand them the stewardship of the country in the next GE before they can make changes for the good of the nation.
For example, the brilliant economic genius of Anwar, Tony, Rafizi, Khalid Ibrahim & a few others will perform miracles for the country’s economy. In fact, the first miracle they will perform will be to lower fuel prices at the pump to RM1.20 thereabouts without adverse effect to PETRONAS or the treasury’s coffee.
Just one bit of advice though… Don’t bet your house on their promises. As Khalid said before, election promises are not agreements… BTW, I think their tong banging antics are precipitated by their tong bangangness…
To Khalid, promises to the bank are also not agreements. But one bank has got a Court Order on his RM66 mill defaulted loan. Not acted upon by the bank yet out of respect for his position as MB maybe.
That’s why he is so desperate to keep his post. The moment he loses it, he’d go kapputz politically, business-wise, etc. Even fellow PKR man, Azmin Ali, been wanting to topple him. No pity for him. Because he allowed himself to be goaded by DAP Teresa Kok, Ronnie Liu etc.
As a Catholic, and from Sarawak no less, I don’t believe that this matter warranted so much public debate. I took my religious classes in English as I studied in a Catholic Mission school for 11 years. However, I once taught BM Sunday School classes (due to a shortage of BM speaking volunteers) for 2 years & I couldn’t recall using the word Allah to refer to God. When referring to the Trinity I would always refer to them as Bapa, Putera & Roh Kudus (Father, Son & Holy Spirit).
If I’m not mistaken (I haven’t attended BM mass for a while now), the word Allah appears at least twice in prayers; the Gloria & the Our Father. Interestingly, here are the words used & its English equivalent (which I never thought about until reading your comments above)
- Gloria pada Allah di Syurga (Glory to God in the highest)
- Allah Bapa yang di syurga (Our Father who art in heaven)
So is it possible that the word Allah is only used to signify the Father? Of course that would be contrary to the teachings of the Islamic faith.
IMHO, the matter should be allowed to be decided in court. And whatever the decision, we should accept & respect it. To the Christians, we need to ask ourselves “What would Jesus do?” since the cornerstone of the religion & commandments is to “Love one another as I have loved you”.
If I’m mistaken on any point, please correct me. Thanks.
I agree with you entirely, TSC. In a democracy we must always rely on the Court as the highest authority on the land. I shudder at the thought what happens if otherwise.
TSC, thank you for your input. It was very educational, and I really appreciate it.
But, I was surprised that there were few takers. I was expecting more pro-PR people to jump on the opportunity to press the issue, perhaps legitimizing their claims.
I guess as Anon 12:15 pointed out, the only reason these people want the “Allah” term not for religion, but only political reasons.
Look, I don’t care what religion you are, but shouldn’t there be something in life that is sacred, that should not be toyed with? If you’re willing to fool around with religion, then what is your value as a human being?
PR wants my vote? PR can eat my shit is more like it.
If the Bible want to translate to Bahasa Malaysia then we follow Bahasa Malaysia strictly.
Allah is never pure Bahasa Malaysia word. It’s borrow from Arabic just because the Malays embrace Islam.
So the right Bahasa Malaysia word is ‘Tuhan’. The word ‘Tuhan’ is much much older than the word ‘Allah’ in Malays dictionary.
Why bother use Allah word that Malays identified only in Islam when the real Malay word is there even before the word Allah arrived at Malay archipelago.
Jangan jadi bodoh. Macam Indon. Mereka telah membenarkan perkataan Allah dalam Injil. Mereka ada perkataan ‘Dewata’ untuk tuhan selain perkataan ‘tuhan’.Jadi mengapa perkataan Allah digunakan kalau bukan di tujukan kepada majoriti penduduk Islam untuk di dakwah kristian.
Ini salah di sisi perlembagaan dimana melarang sesiapa pun mendakwah ugama apa pun kepada orang Melayu yang memang berugama Islam di Malaysia.
TSC.i respect what u said..but this Tokong guy unfortunately doesn’t think a bit like u…he is not for the religion per say..but more for political purpose….he is trying to create discontent among the Christians…and the Muslim..and further..he wants to create discontent towards UMNO…i dont think that tokong guy is an “alim” Christians…but he is just using Christianity for political purpose..just like PAS using Islam for its political purpose….
I may be mistaken but he was asked more than once to state his religion right? But he never commented. I suppose a tokong would not be a follower of another religion. I just hope he remembers what happened to a certain self proclaimed tokong, David Koresh..
Lim Guan Eng has his own Church. It’s called the Church of Central Executive Committee. all the members of that Church are his and his father’s cronies. well, to be precise, all those members are the cronies of his family. his religion has nothing to do with the teachings of Christianity or whatever religion he’s into. his religion is politics.
As long as his religion is not that of the secret societies, thugs and gangsters. Talking often seditious kind – note that he was jailed for 18 months for being seditious in Malacca last time.
Well well well
Maybe this is just another distraction tactic for the public not to focus on the land for mb allegation.
Lets not forget this tactic
Btw any development yet?
TUHAN sound TO HANG not nice meaning but ALLAH sound ALL LAH more suitable as power of god ! So never mind lah let them use ALLAH so can promote the greatest of god ! Never mind lah….
What TUHAN sound TO HANG are you talking about?
Looks like you don’t have a mind when you say never mind.
LMFAO
The Singapore Government owned Straits Times has come out in support of the DAP’s dilemma in sleeping in the same bed as the PAS. The paper demanded that the distinguished Tuan Haji Hadi Awang to retract, to renounce, to say sorry, etc for his honourable and sincere words which he uttered years ago. Wake-up DAP supporters ! Where are your leaders shepherding you ?
Why is there no one clarifying that Jesus is not God but only the Son of God.